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	<title>Comments for Tekkie</title>
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	<link>http://tekkie.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>&#34;If you care a lot about the future, it shows that you believe in what you&#039;re doing now and you think it&#039;s worthwhile enough to have some lasting impact.&#34; - Syd Mead</description>
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		<title>Comment on Reviving programming as literacy by Marty Montgomery</title>
		<link>http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/reviving-programming-as-literacy/#comment-9735</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marty Montgomery]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jun 2013 14:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tekkie.wordpress.com/?p=2510#comment-9735</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The need for a basic education in computer literacy as well as career benefits to the individual, and skills benefits to the economy.

Computer programming (coding) also promotes clear logical thinking and is an instructive source of easily understood analogies for otherwise difficult topics in philosophy, including Buddhist philosophy. For example, the key Buddhist concept of three levels of dependent existence can be understood in terms of algorithms, data structures and semantics , as well as the more traditional view as causality, mereology and mental designation. The use of the Church-Turing-Deutsch principle to distinguish between the physical and non-physical aspects of the mind follows on from this.

Dumbing down

So it&#039;s a matter of concern that as computers become more pervasive, actual computer literacy has declined over the past ten or fifteen years due a process of dumbing down in schools and colleges. Not only does this impact vocational skills, but lack of computer coding experience among younger people means that computer concepts can no longer be used to illustrate analogies in other fields of study. Back in the mid-nineties, the growth in familiarity with computer programming was welcomed as a means of illustrating philosophical concepts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The need for a basic education in computer literacy as well as career benefits to the individual, and skills benefits to the economy.</p>
<p>Computer programming (coding) also promotes clear logical thinking and is an instructive source of easily understood analogies for otherwise difficult topics in philosophy, including Buddhist philosophy. For example, the key Buddhist concept of three levels of dependent existence can be understood in terms of algorithms, data structures and semantics , as well as the more traditional view as causality, mereology and mental designation. The use of the Church-Turing-Deutsch principle to distinguish between the physical and non-physical aspects of the mind follows on from this.</p>
<p>Dumbing down</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s a matter of concern that as computers become more pervasive, actual computer literacy has declined over the past ten or fifteen years due a process of dumbing down in schools and colleges. Not only does this impact vocational skills, but lack of computer coding experience among younger people means that computer concepts can no longer be used to illustrate analogies in other fields of study. Back in the mid-nineties, the growth in familiarity with computer programming was welcomed as a means of illustrating philosophical concepts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Groovy, dude! by It&#8217;s the end of the world as we know it &#124; Tekkie</title>
		<link>http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2007/02/10/groovy-dude/#comment-9586</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[It&#8217;s the end of the world as we know it &#124; Tekkie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 10:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2007/02/10/groovy-dude/#comment-9586</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Groovy,&#160;dude! Got&#160;math? [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Groovy,&nbsp;dude! Got&nbsp;math? [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The future of programming by It&#8217;s the end of the world as we know it &#124; Tekkie</title>
		<link>http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2006/12/17/the-future-of-programming/#comment-9585</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[It&#8217;s the end of the world as we know it &#124; Tekkie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 10:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2006/12/17/the-future-of-programming/#comment-9585</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] which upgrades C# and VB.Net with dynamic language features. I&#8217;ve talked about this in a past post. Groovy for Java was just released last month. It&#8217;s a FOSS dynamic language written [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] which upgrades C# and VB.Net with dynamic language features. I&#8217;ve talked about this in a past post. Groovy for Java was just released last month. It&#8217;s a FOSS dynamic language written [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Great moments in modern computer history by It&#8217;s the end of the world as we know it &#124; Tekkie</title>
		<link>http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2006/08/22/great-moments-in-modern-computer-history/#comment-9584</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[It&#8217;s the end of the world as we know it &#124; Tekkie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 10:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://tekkie.wordpress.com/2006/08/22/great-moments-in-modern-computer-history/#comment-9584</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] now more than ever, needs to nurture bringing forth new ideas. I&#8217;ve already talked about computer science luminaries who have worked hard to innovate in academia. All it would take is looking at what they&#8217;ve [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] now more than ever, needs to nurture bringing forth new ideas. I&#8217;ve already talked about computer science luminaries who have worked hard to innovate in academia. All it would take is looking at what they&#8217;ve [&#8230;]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Does computer science have a future? by The challenge of trying to get a real science of computing in our schools &#124; Tekkie</title>
		<link>http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/does-computer-science-have-a-future/#comment-9569</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The challenge of trying to get a real science of computing in our schools &#124; Tekkie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 09:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tekkie.wordpress.com/?p=846#comment-9569</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] is a follow-up post to &#8220;Does computer science have a future?&#8221; It fleshes out the challenge of trying to promote a real science in computing&#8230;with some [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] is a follow-up post to &#8220;Does computer science have a future?&#8221; It fleshes out the challenge of trying to promote a real science in computing&#8230;with some [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reviving programming as literacy by Nic Mollel</title>
		<link>http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/reviving-programming-as-literacy/#comment-9525</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nic Mollel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Apr 2013 03:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tekkie.wordpress.com/?p=2510#comment-9525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark and John, thanks for both your writing! I just came across Neil Postman recently and I was trying to work out how his ideas methods/medium in education translates into computing and the implications for me as a budding programmer. I have read few Kay interviews but I am yet to read the SmallTalk history and I think together with John&#039;s writing will be my next reading item. From the highlights that Mark points out, you formulate the link I was trying to establish between Postman and computing with clarity I was lacking. At the end of the day though, it is hard to develop that concrete understanding of computing as a medium where every instructor trumpets their language and skill set as solution to everything. I am working individually to achieve that goal and it has its own challenges but I will prevail! 

Thanks again for both your writings]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark and John, thanks for both your writing! I just came across Neil Postman recently and I was trying to work out how his ideas methods/medium in education translates into computing and the implications for me as a budding programmer. I have read few Kay interviews but I am yet to read the SmallTalk history and I think together with John&#8217;s writing will be my next reading item. From the highlights that Mark points out, you formulate the link I was trying to establish between Postman and computing with clarity I was lacking. At the end of the day though, it is hard to develop that concrete understanding of computing as a medium where every instructor trumpets their language and skill set as solution to everything. I am working individually to achieve that goal and it has its own challenges but I will prevail! </p>
<p>Thanks again for both your writings</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reviving programming as literacy by Mark Miller</title>
		<link>http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/reviving-programming-as-literacy/#comment-9524</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Apr 2013 00:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tekkie.wordpress.com/?p=2510#comment-9524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi John!

Good to hear from you.

I found your thesis through an Australian high school math/science teacher&#039;s blog back in &#039;07. His name is Bill Kerr (I just updated my post to give him a couple &quot;hat tips&quot;). I read through your whole thesis when I got time. I took copious notes, because I thought it was important enough to write about in some way. I think I finally finished going through it a few years later. :) The reason I didn&#039;t use your paper earlier was I lacked a context for it. Then this video showed up a couple weeks ago talking about bringing programming into education and I thought, &quot;Okay! Now I have a context for it!&quot;

Let me take this opportunity to thank you for writing your thesis and making it available (perhaps the university you attended does that as a matter of course). I found what you wrote engaging and enriching. As I progress, trying to learn about computing in the context that Alan Kay talks about, I feel like I get closer and closer to understanding what he&#039;s trying to get across. I feel like I understand your paper better now than when I first read it, as well.

I&#039;ve seen Kay try to engage the wider computer science community re. his &quot;systems science&quot; concept. Maybe he&#039;s gotten some more takers, though that hasn&#039;t been apparent in the discourse I&#039;ve seen. I don&#039;t know if adding my voice to the chorus will cause more people to take notice, understand what he&#039;s getting at, and consider it important enough to do something about it, but I do think it helps to have more than one person repeatedly making the points (you are one, as am I), as it seems decisions about approaches are more about consensus than deep introspection. I wish that were not the case, as I&#039;m certain that Kay&#039;s idea of a &quot;systems science&quot; is not the end-all-be-all of computing, nor is it the end of the story of computing&#039;s potential. What&#039;s more important to get across to people, and this gets to Kay&#039;s provocative question, &quot;Should we even be teaching programming,&quot; is different outlooks. The grey matter is what counts. As Kay said, &quot;The music is not in the piano.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John!</p>
<p>Good to hear from you.</p>
<p>I found your thesis through an Australian high school math/science teacher&#8217;s blog back in &#8217;07. His name is Bill Kerr (I just updated my post to give him a couple &#8220;hat tips&#8221;). I read through your whole thesis when I got time. I took copious notes, because I thought it was important enough to write about in some way. I think I finally finished going through it a few years later. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  The reason I didn&#8217;t use your paper earlier was I lacked a context for it. Then this video showed up a couple weeks ago talking about bringing programming into education and I thought, &#8220;Okay! Now I have a context for it!&#8221;</p>
<p>Let me take this opportunity to thank you for writing your thesis and making it available (perhaps the university you attended does that as a matter of course). I found what you wrote engaging and enriching. As I progress, trying to learn about computing in the context that Alan Kay talks about, I feel like I get closer and closer to understanding what he&#8217;s trying to get across. I feel like I understand your paper better now than when I first read it, as well.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen Kay try to engage the wider computer science community re. his &#8220;systems science&#8221; concept. Maybe he&#8217;s gotten some more takers, though that hasn&#8217;t been apparent in the discourse I&#8217;ve seen. I don&#8217;t know if adding my voice to the chorus will cause more people to take notice, understand what he&#8217;s getting at, and consider it important enough to do something about it, but I do think it helps to have more than one person repeatedly making the points (you are one, as am I), as it seems decisions about approaches are more about consensus than deep introspection. I wish that were not the case, as I&#8217;m certain that Kay&#8217;s idea of a &#8220;systems science&#8221; is not the end-all-be-all of computing, nor is it the end of the story of computing&#8217;s potential. What&#8217;s more important to get across to people, and this gets to Kay&#8217;s provocative question, &#8220;Should we even be teaching programming,&#8221; is different outlooks. The grey matter is what counts. As Kay said, &#8220;The music is not in the piano.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reviving programming as literacy by John Maxwell</title>
		<link>http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/reviving-programming-as-literacy/#comment-9523</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Maxwell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Apr 2013 19:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tekkie.wordpress.com/?p=2510#comment-9523</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow... what a post! Thanks for all the coverage, Mark... I don&#039;t know that I&#039;ve ever been so extensively quoted! 

Since I finished my dissertation half-a-dozen years ago, Alan Kay himself has continued to repeat and elaborate on his message. Every so often the media rediscover him and go interview him again (the launch of the iPad was a good opportunity, apparently). His point remains the same: we&#039;ve been utterly crippled by the poverty of our own imaginations. And while bits of his wisdom creep slowly into our ways of working, I wonder sometimes if Alan Kay will remain &quot;ahead of his time&quot; indefinitely.

Here&#039;s yet another Kay interview, this from April 2, 2013 (that is, today): http://techland.time.com/2013/04/02/an-interview-with-computing-pioneer-alan-kay/

- John Maxwell]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230; what a post! Thanks for all the coverage, Mark&#8230; I don&#8217;t know that I&#8217;ve ever been so extensively quoted! </p>
<p>Since I finished my dissertation half-a-dozen years ago, Alan Kay himself has continued to repeat and elaborate on his message. Every so often the media rediscover him and go interview him again (the launch of the iPad was a good opportunity, apparently). His point remains the same: we&#8217;ve been utterly crippled by the poverty of our own imaginations. And while bits of his wisdom creep slowly into our ways of working, I wonder sometimes if Alan Kay will remain &#8220;ahead of his time&#8221; indefinitely.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s yet another Kay interview, this from April 2, 2013 (that is, today): <a href="http://techland.time.com/2013/04/02/an-interview-with-computing-pioneer-alan-kay/" rel="nofollow">http://techland.time.com/2013/04/02/an-interview-with-computing-pioneer-alan-kay/</a></p>
<p>- John Maxwell</p>
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		<title>Comment on The beauty of mathematics denied by Reviving programming as literacy &#124; Tekkie</title>
		<link>http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/the-beauty-of-mathematics-denied/#comment-9522</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reviving programming as literacy &#124; Tekkie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Apr 2013 11:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tekkie.wordpress.com/?p=544#comment-9522</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] subtraction, like she suggests. This confusion is common in our society. I talk more about this here. Having said this, it does not mean that programming is hard right off the bat. The math involved [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] subtraction, like she suggests. This confusion is common in our society. I talk more about this here. Having said this, it does not mean that programming is hard right off the bat. The math involved [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Looking back at 2012 by Rob St. Amant</title>
		<link>http://tekkie.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/looking-back-at-2012/#comment-9514</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob St. Amant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2013 18:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tekkie.wordpress.com/?p=2440#comment-9514</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve just discovered your blog, Mark. There are great insights in your writing. (I&#039;m probably biased, as long-time fan of Lisp, but still...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just discovered your blog, Mark. There are great insights in your writing. (I&#8217;m probably biased, as long-time fan of Lisp, but still&#8230;)</p>
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